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Interview with a Top Producer:

Dianna Kokoszka

Dianna Kokoszka, The Kokoszka Group, Lakewood, Colorado

2003 Sales Volume: Between $44,000,000 and $45,000,000 (over 200 units)

Client Mix: 40% past client/past client referrals; 20% “For Sale by Owner;” 15% expired listings; 25% a mixture of others (reputation, sign calls, etc.)

Editor's Note: Since this interview, Dianna has become the Vice President of the “MAPS” Department at Keller Williams International office. She also oversees the Coaching Program and Masterminds Program for Keller Williams.

Sandy Dixon: How did you get started in the real estate business?

Dianna Kokoszka: I grew up working in my dad’s grocery store, so I’ve always been in sales. He was always telling us that we needed to sell more, and he taught us how to up-sell. For example, if someone was buying ice cream, he would ask them if they wanted a cantaloupe or cake mix to go with it. When it was time for me to go to college, I had to work very hard at three jobs to earn money. I began selling home care products, and I did very well. My earnings surpassed those of the other jobs. So I learned that selling was something that came naturally to me to a certain degree. If I ever needed more money, I knew how to sell and knew I could just go out and make more. I felt in control, which I loved.

I got into real estate primarily because everyone kept telling me that I was a great sales person. They’d ask me why I wasn’t in real estate where I could really make some money. At the time, I had built up a database of clients who bought home care products from me. I was doing well, but I hated being out late at night, away from my two small children, and carrying around all the products to do the parties. I was up one night with my baby, pacing the floor, and I flipped on the television to keep me awake. I turned it to the channel 6 auction and, low and behold, a real estate class was up for bid. It was 2:15 in the morning, I bid $50 (because that’s all I had at the time), and I won. So I got to go to real estate school. I was very thrilled and excited about it.

I found my first job in real estate, in 1977, by going office to office. It was mostly men in the business at that time. I was turned down a lot because most offices already had their “company woman”. I finally found a start-up company, Witkin Realty, which needed some help. Witkin Realty was a spin-off from an area builder. In my first year I sold 104 homes. I then had people coming out of the woodwork trying to get me to work for their company. It was fun to watch the tables turn. I stayed with Witkin because they were the ones who took me on when no one else would. I have a sense of loyalty to the people who do things for me. I try to reciprocate.

I’ve always found real estate to be exciting and challenging. There are days, I have to admit, when I don’t want to do it. And yet, I’ll get that phone call from a client and it just recharges me again. It’s a challenge to do more and more and yet keep my clients really happy. I have met people who have worked with top producing agents and said they felt like a number. That will not happen with me. My business philosophy is based on this story.

When I was in 9th grade my dad gave me a record called “The Strangest Secret” by Earl Nightingale. I wore the record out. He also told me that no matter what I wanted to do in life, if I followed what that record said, and I recognized the sign that everybody wears around their neck, I’d be successful. I said, “That’s great, so what does the sign say?” but he wouldn’t tell me. I had to figure out what the sign said myself. At first my attitude was, “Who cares?” But every night he’d ask me, “What does the sign say?” and I’d have to tell him I hadn’t figured it out. One day I was sitting at the soda fountain in a drug store, waiting for my friend to show up so we could go to the movies, and a lady came in and sat down next to me and we started talking. She said to me, “Thanks for just conversing with me and making me feel so important.” That’s when it hit me! I knew what the sign said! I couldn’t wait to get home and tell my dad.

Sandy Dixon: You’ve really got me curious, what did the sign say?

Dianna Kokoszka: It said, “Make me feel important.”

Everything at the Kokoszka group has been designed to make our clients feel important. All the systems that go into play when someone works with us, and decides to choose us, makes them feel more important regardless of their behavioral styles. I was very blessed to be brought up in a home where my dad studied about behavioral style. Larry Wilson was one of the first people to start talking about behavioral styles. Dad would buy me his books, let me listen to his tapes, and take me to his seminars. I was fascinated by the different behavioral styles… a dominant director, influential socializer, steady relater or cautious thinker.

I’ve studied these extensively and all of my systems, brochures, and the package you receive when you come into the office are put together so each and every page will have something that fits a behavioral style. If you are that steady relater, you are going to understand that I can help your family and make sure that this whole process is smooth so that you can sit back and enjoy the ride. If you’re a dominant director, it has bullets so you know that everyone is looking at the bottom line and we’ll get through it very quickly. For the influential socializer, it has different colors and feels like more of an event. For the thinker we have some statistics and similar strategies to help them out.

Sandy Dixon: It seems you have taken a very unique and personalized approach to the business. In doing so, each of your clients feels that you have customized a game plan for them and that they are getting very special treatment.

Dianna Kokoszka: I believe that is very true. Each and every person is asking for a service, and a service is not a commodity. It’s not like you go to McDonald’s and get a hamburger. I don’t want it to be quite that system-tied, even though everything is precisely written out as to how we do things.

Sandy Dixon: What was your volume in 2003 and what do you foresee it being in 2004?

Dianna Kokoszka: We hit between 44 and 45 million as far as dollar amount. We hit over 200 units every year. The top year was 239 (with me, my son who is a buyer’s agent, and our two assistants). We did have someone who helped us part-time with marketing. And a courier - I love my courier. I would say having a courier is one of the biggest things I wouldn’t want to be without.

I frequently hear about other Realtor’s volumes and the ones who make over a million dollars. I even belong to a group that only accepts Realtor’s who’ve made over a million dollars selling real estate. It’s interesting to watch people’s P&L because most Realtors talk in gross dollars. Nobody talks about the profits they made. I see a lot of Realtors spending a lot of money on marketing materials because that’s what they choose. I’m not saying that’s incorrect, but they should look at the bottom line and run their business like a business. I think that’s something that really separates me from other people – I look at it as a business and run it as business. I look at my financials, my P&L, and I want a return on my investment. I don’t just run out there and say “Let’s do it this way this month and see what we get.” It’s really pretty scientific. I majored in physics and math, and I truly believe everything is energy because of my physics background. And because it’s energy, I think about what kind of energy I put out. What kind of energy does my marketing material put out? What type of energy am I portraying over the phone? All of that’s important.

Sandy Dixon: You are very proactive and consistent in your methods. It sounds like your group is the same way.

Dianna Kokoszka: They have to be disciplined. Discipline to me comes through that consistency. You need to be consistent in mailing to your past clients and in calling your past clients. I pick up the phone, make my calls, ask for appointments and get them. I have a great skill in converting. Conversion is my biggest thing. I’ve lost only two listings this year. One lady decided not to sell and the other person did list with another agent. She still hasn’t sold yet so who knows, may be I’ll get it back. In listing 160 properties, losing 2 isn’t too bad.

Sandy Dixon: Talk to me about your sources of business.

Dianna Kokoszka: My business mix hits very close between past clients, past client referrals, and “For Sale by Owner” properties. The “For Sale by Owner” properties are kind of like the sport of real estate. So much of this business is repetitious. I’ve found that calling “For Sale by Owner” properties every day keeps some sport in it for me. It keeps me alive and keeps me sharp. Also Expired Listings rank in the top four.

So many Realtors go out and practice on their clients. They shouldn’t be practicing on their clients - they should practice on “For Sale by Owner” properties. That’s why I call them the ‘cadavers of real estate’, because they are great to practice on. If I want to try a new script or a new way of doing something, I’ll try it out on a “For Sale by Owner.” If it works, that’s great. But if it doesn’t, I haven’t lost anything. I don’t want to practice on some body who is going to possibly list with me. I want to use the tried and true method on them and practice on the others.

Sandy Dixon: You have several irons in the fire. It’s a 360 degree approach to marketing - like spokes on a wheel.

Dianna Kokoszka: I am a learning based person, I always have been. I’ve tried to learn from the best. So when I wanted to learn about marketing, I went to Jay Abraham. When I wanted to learn how to mind map or story board, I learned from Michael Vance, who helped build Disney World and Disney Land. I’ve always surrounded myself with great people. At a seminar recently, Jay Abraham said, “You have to have pillars of marketing to hold up your business.” Many people just have one or two pillars. He suggested that you need somewhere between 15 to 19 pillars. So whether they are like spokes on a wheel, like you said, or pillars, it’s the same concept. You need to have different areas that you are constantly drawing business from. I track everything so that we have a source of business. We know exactly how many came from past client, how many came from sphere of influence, how many came from ads or signs or prospecting.

Sandy Dixon: What sets you apart from other agents in the industry? What do you do special for your clients?

Dianna Kokoszka: First off, I've failed forward. I don't look at it as failure; I look at it as learning. My mindset really sets me apart. I come from abundance; I don’t come from scarcity. It’s hard for me to be around scarcity-minded people. What I mean by that are people who think they are in competition with other in real estate. When I go to Look Out Mountain and look out over Denver, there are so many houses out there - enough for all of us. So when someone feels like this business is a win-lose situation, I don’t like that. There’s plenty of money, houses, and sales to go around. I’m just trying to get my share of them - actually, my unfair share.

Another thing that distinguishes me would be my skill level. I practice scripts and dialogues a lot. I teach an NLP (neuro linguistic programming) class to instruct others how to get people to listen to them, and to interrupt thought patterns so your clients pay attention to what you’re saying.

I started out my business going door to door. I had two small kids and I didn’t have any money. I wanted to be able to go to the grocery store and buy whatever I wanted without a calculator in my hand, and didn’t want to have to put anything back because I didn’t have enough money in my pocket to pay for it. I couldn’t afford a babysitter, so I put my kids in a red wagon and we went door to door. I needed to meet people because I didn’t know anybody here. That was my lead generation at the time. I made $70,000 that first year and it was so exciting. I was so blessed. When I went to the store and didn’t have to use a calculator, it was so much fun. So I kept prospecting and realized that I could keep finding new business or get referrals from my past business. It was really cool to think about that. I realized if I could get 100 of my past clients to give me one referral, I’d have 100 transactions right there. Then I could prospect to get even more. So I started doing extra things for my clients.

Sandy Dixon: Would you share some examples of your special treatment?

Dianna Kokoszka: I’ve always hosted client appreciation parties. Back in 1978 I hosted a garage sale. My clients brought their stuff in and we set it all up on the tennis court like it was a little flea market. I did a movie night, popped popcorn, and showed a movie for the neighborhood. I had kite flying contests for kids. It was all about my clients. Now I do a party for them twice a year. I hold one around May or June when I rent out a movie theater and take families to the movies. Depending on the theater we have 500 to 600 people. I introduce my team and we talk a little bit about real estate and then show the movie.

In December is my favorite party. The first Thursday of December, every single year, my clients come for dinner. We have a beautiful buffet, Santa, face painters, caricature sketches and a big drawing for a trip. This year I’m giving away a $2000 trip to Mexico. We just have so much fun. I love kids and my client’s kids have so much fun that they want their parents to stay for the whole thing. It’s a pretty formal affair - even the kids get dressed up in their cute little outfits. When they get out of their car there is a red carpet and a doorman. I love seeing my clients and I get my picture taken with all of them. All of the clients will get a CD of holiday music with our picture on it.

I call my clients to make sure their closing went smoothly. I also call them 7 days later to see how they are doing getting moved in. I call back in a month, three months, and six months to check in. And I always send cards on their birthdays. For the first birthday card I did, I dressed up in a firefighter’s uniform and went to one of the local stations. I posed with the hose and the card says “Okay I’m ready” and then on the inside “Light the Candles”. A lot of agents started copying that one so I changed it. For the next one I went to the optometrist and had my picture taken with all the eye exam equipment. The card says “So what do you see?” and you open it up it says “I see a great client having a birthday.” They’re great because they are a picture of me, made especially for my clients. I’ll also call them and wish them a happy birthday. They are small things, but things most agents wouldn’t do.

Sandy Dixon: Tell me about your group and how it has evolved.

Dianna Kokoszka: The universe just keeps providing me with great people. I’ve had people move out of state and I always hate to lose them. I’ve had people leave to go out and do their own thing. My goal is to help each of my employees reach their potential as best they can. When they leave me, they always leave knowing much more than when they got here.

I studied under Michael Gerber. I did some consulting for him in his consulting group and became certified. Within our group I do what he teaches. I went through and defined the positions in my company: Chief Executive Officer, Listing Coordinator, Lead Listing Partner and New Home Sales Director, and I have a book with definitions for each position. It talks about personalities, action plans and includes all the applicable forms for each position.

It’s great when I hire new people. For instance, this says, “On day one, after you take a listing, here’s what you are going to do. You are going to call up and say, ‘Hello is so and so there? This is Ashley over at the Kokoszka Group. Diana Kokoszka asked me to give you a call and introduce myself. I’m the client care manager and your personal contact. Now should you have any questions or concerns…” They improvise as needed, but I’ve found that the more you have structured systems, the more creativity you can have. You have time to be creative because you aren’t running around helter-skelter putting out fires.

Sandy Dixon: Do you rely on your group to handle things when you are not physically present?

Dianna Kokoszka: I do, and my group is fairly new. When I came over to Keller Williams my son had been with me for nine years. He started getting into developing and building and discovered that he loves it. He still does some real estate, but very little. So I lost somebody who did 100 deals for me every year. None of my new people have ever sold real estate before. I’m more than happy to interview people who have been in real estate, but it’s usually apparent that they’d need to unlearn what they’ve learned in the past. They’ve learned one way of doing real estate and it isn’t The Kokoszka Group way.

Sandy Dixon : It’s obvious that systems make your group extremely effective and efficient. That efficiency is very powerful.

Dianna Kokoszka: Thank you for noticing that. They also know that the abundance thing is here. We talk a lot about where we’re at and how to get what we want. We never say “I can’t” or “if”. We’ve read (and would recommend) “The Power of Intention” by Wayne Dyer, and “Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting.”

Sandy Dixon : What advice do you have for real estate agents who are just starting out or that may be struggling in their business?

Dianna Kokoszka: Build a great foundation by finding a great mentor. If you want to copy somebody, find out how many transactions they are doing before you copy them. When you go to a training program or you interview with a company, find out who is going to be training you and how many transactions they’ve done. If you’re going to learn from somebody who does six transactions a year, they are only going to be able to teach you to do six transactions a year. If you learn from somebody who is doing 100 or 200 transactions, even if you don’t want to do that many yourself, you’re going to learn the efficiencies to do things in a great way and build a great foundation.

I would also say, do the basics. Pick up the phone, call people, and tell your friends what you do. Talk to people when you’re standing in the grocery line, tell everybody that you’re an agent. Don’t be a “secret” agent, and don’t let your ego get in the way.

And another important resource:

Now is a great time to prospect!

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